Does anyone know of an official resource for the status of the water system. I called the water district and there is nothing. I live in the estates and will return when we can shower. Any info would help.
no water at my house on west end. my meter remains turned off. no update on www.rmwd.org either. hopefully their webmaster is out turning valves right now.
What roads are open to get back into the estates? Is Wildcat open form Lakeside? Is Poway road open to 67 and 67 to Ramona? What about 78 from Escondido?
We live along Ash and the water has been back on since around 10:30am. I already see a neighbor watering their lawn...is it O.K. to do same (yard and plants are extremely dry), or wait till rest of system is back up?
Why is it so hard to understand water for toilets only until the system is all up and running and the water quality has been checked out. People who are water their lawns and plants ought to be fined!!!
This site is wonderful. Let's start listing phone numbers or volunteer opportunities for those of us who would like to get out and help. I am feeling so fortunate that my house is still standing, but I know many others who were not so lucky. What are some specific things we can do?
If anyone has displaced horses, I have 2 corrals available for use in SDCE. Just provide feed and you can use them here until you have facilities again. email me at gwpel@cox.net. I don't have water yet, but I heard is being turned on today...
One of the things that could be done for the victims whose homes were destroyed would be to organize "sifting" teams, to help sift through rubble and find precious articles or keepsake items. My wife and I are heading to ranson's to buy lumber and metal screen to make sifting boxes and plan to assist one family we know. You might want to contact someone you know whose house burned down and offer the same help.
I would just like to thank Mike W for going on KOGO and telling EVERYONE what the problem was so that Diane Jacob and others could see what the situation really was and force RMWD to get help. Thanks for bringing us HOME! If we are ever going to incorporate there is a lot that needs to be done in the way of planning for an emergency and the break down of communication.
Teachers are all to report to their sites Monday morning at 8:00 to regroup and do whatever needs to be done to get the schools up and ready. Children return Tuesday.
Can we get someone from the water district to put up a list of what we can use the water for. The rmwd website is worthless. Same for the caltrans site. show me a mat with the open and closed roads. I have gotten more and better information here than anywhere else. Thanks sooooo much. Keep the faith
FROM VICKIE AT THE WATER DISTRICT: Crews have been turning water meters on since 6 am, this water is available for "flush only", all other uses must wait until the Health Department approves the water quality... (guessing here at 24-48 hrs) DO NOT USE THE WATER FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN YOUR TOILET AT THIS POINT!
I just called the RMWD and received an automated message. The messages says we can us the water for flushing, showers and brushing teeth if we don't swallow. NOT for cooking or washing food. Also to conserve because we are on limited supply so we should not water lawns or hose things down. God Bless.
We have space available for a few displaced horses in the West End, very close to Daniel's West. You can keep them here for as long as you need. If you provide their feed we can provide the space.
Info we are providing on this water situation is coming directly from the Water District to the Chamber of Commerce to you who are reading this. This in not rumor or conjecture. We will continue to update this as we get new info.
I am recommending ramonarelief.com as a resource for posting info and finding info. They have categories such as housing available, housing needed, pets found, etc.
Can someone please tell me what is wrong with the water? Is it that there are contaminents in it like microbes and such or is it because there are heavy chemicals in it? I had called the water department and their recording said showers were OK. I took a shower and now my skin has a burning sensation. Can someone please treat the residents of Ramona with a minimal amount of respect and tell us what exactly we are dealing with here? I called several friends and they also followed the RWD recomendation (took showers) and did not get it near our mouths.
When the Water Department man turned our water back on he did NOT SAY ANYTHING to me! This is really unacceptable!!!
Do not touch water The following information is an advisory to residents in the Ramona Municipal Water District at 3:15 p.m today.
DO NOT HAVE ANY HUMAN CONTACT WITH THE WATER.
Local water agency crews are opening water meters today and tomorrow in Ramona to resume municipal delivery of water to residents and businesses. If your water meter has been opened and municipal water is being delivered to your property, please DO NOT HAVE ANY HUMAN CONTACT WITH THE WATER.
Bottled water should be used for all drinking, including baby formula and juice, brushing teeth, washing dishes, making ice and food preparation.
Use bottled water or a hand sanitizer for hand washing.
Hot showers are available on Aqua Lane. Municipal water is permissible only for use in toilets and to do laundry. A formal UNSAFE WATER ALERT NOTICE was posted at Ramona residences on Thursday. Please refer to that notice for more information.
Additionally, outdoor water use is still prohibited. This advisory is in effect until further notice.
For additional information, visit www.sdcountyresponse.com or call 211.
I also have not been able to get a straight answer from the water district ... though I appreciate the timely info from the Sentinel. You would think the RMWD office would proactively send out a message to our homes on this - or set up a phone line to allow us to call and get timely info that is not contradictory.
My neighbors out here in SDCE ended up being evacuated to Barona, and locked-in at the hotel - which was gracious to offer free room and food to all that ended up there ... including the chair of the water board, who my neighbors met for the first time.
My neighbors shared that this gentleman found the situation funny, and made light of all of it, and that they got free great food and free supplies, and did not once make any mention of trying to coordinate HIS responsibilities to protect and deliver our water resources.
My neighbors asked about why there was no backup pump systems (they were shocked) and his response was "oh the Ramona residents would never pay for that." Really?
This gentleman also made light of the businesses not being able to operate in town due to HIS group's lack of preparedness. He said the businesses would not be affected because they are not served by the Ramona system. Really? How many restaurants and other businesses have you all seen this week? I've seen most shut down ... and this lack of revenue is due to our water disaster - and not the fire disaster.
I've heard there is a Ramona Water board meeting Tuesday 6pm at the Community Center. If the Sentinel can verify this, please do. I will certainly be there ... it is time to get some people in charge of the water dept who when an emergency arises are actually worried about caring for our citizens instead of enjoying free food and supplies and treating this whole experience as something to enjoy.
Our water board sucks. Has for years, and hopefully now after we clean the contamination in the water ... we can clean out the contamination running the department.
I just love how totally disorganized the water information has been.
They turn on the water, then 4 hours later tell you not to touch it, this following the written order on the RMWD website saying that it is good for anything except drinking.
I really wish I knew what I could do.
Thinking their website was gospel, I took it that we were not to drink it, so we started showering and filling the pool. Then we get a call that we are not to touch it. I wonder if I will melt away now?
The sign coming into Ramona says not to drink it, doesn't say anything about touching it.
Does anyone really know what we can do with the water coming into our homes?
You would think with all of the communications technology around, we could get this straight.
NO HUMAN CONTACT WITH WATER..that is the latest posted on www.ramonasentinel.com and call 7891330. No showers, washing hands...too late for me but thought I'd let all know. Thanks
Well, the RMWD site earlier didn't say anything about not touching the water. This afternoon, it said it was ok to touch it, even ok to brush your teeth with it. They have since removed that information from their site.
I can't understand why the RMWD site doesn't say anything any longer about what we can and can't do with their water.
I guess we have to trust Maureen Roberson for our health now :)
I guess I wasn't as much asking what we should be doing, as I was making noise about how inconsistent the variety of information out there is.
One source says one thing, another source says another. And the one source I would thing would be "golden", the RMWD website, doesn't say anything.
It says that we can use water for toilets and laundry. I wonder now how we transfer the wet clothes from the washer to the dryer without touching them?
You can train your dog to transfer the clothes. They are not fully human, and thereby don't fall under the classification of "human" in the "human contact" clause.
WHAT IS UP??? I drove into the Estates this afternoon and saw a caltrans sign saying "Do Not Drink Water". After checking with the blog, I determined that we could bath and flush toilets. Now, at 8:22pm, I get a reverse 911 call that states it is a 3:15pm update, that says "NO HUMAN CONTACT WITH THE WATER". Don't you think the caltrans sign should have said, "Water, for toilets only"? UGH!!!
great now my skin will probably melt off before dawn.... I took a shower before the call not to have human contact with the water!!! Oh but how wonderful it was after 5 days to finally feel clean, what a way to go! I just have stinky kids now, no showers for them still!
Probably alot of worry for nothing and the water was safe all along. I too took a shower after not being able to mask it with perfume or deoderant and so far so good.
After reading all the blogs, I am going to assume that not using the water for personal hygine is not a great idea. Lets all wait until we are told to use it other than flushing. Enough with the water.
We have many people in Ramona without housing, especially the ones in the Black Canyon area. The media has focused on the RB and Poway area, but does everyone realize that we have lost 196 homes!! Some of these people have no insurance nor money. Lets focus on this issue and use our energy for this. The water is a washed issue!
If water is unsafe now, then its tested and its o.k. to use, how do I know if the water I'm using is clean or if its contaminated water thats been sitting in the pipes?How do they flush the pipes? Also, the grocery stores are using water on the produce- where is that water coming from?
RMWD needs to learn to budget. Where is all of my money going that I pay every month? Why haven't pipelines been updated? When our water was turned on today we were told we could use it for everyhing except drinking.
All you people care is about the water. It will be ok! Give it some time. There are more imporatant things than worring about the water in the pipes. Lets put things into prospective people. Be thankful that you can gripe about where your water is coming from since you have a house and computer to do it from!
Are there different pipes for the water used by vets, doctors,dentists,restaurants, grocery stores, ... in town? This is ridiculous. It sounds like a bit of paranoia.
If the water was really contaminated,they would tell us the exact chemical composition of the water, as well as possible side effects to drinking it. Plus, we would have heard of people actually getting sick on this blog. So, the real issue was to lie to the people about the water to buy time so the RMWD could protect themselves from the backlash that is coming.
With the recent enlightenment of the competence of the RMWD how safe was the water a week ago? At any condition the water coming out of a treatment plant is cleaner than our oceans and bays. I would not drink that water either. the 911 attacks entered us in to an age of fear. Our own president has made using fear and threats for persuasion the norm. The warnings about the water are so everyone does not start using every water supply source in every house all at the same time. Thanks to terrorists, officials feel they need to scare us to make their point because they do not have the competence to explain.
I agree with the "it'll be okay" comment about the water ... of course there are worse situations for many of our neighbors who have lost everything.
There does need to be, however, responsibility taken by those people who "run" the water district. They were unprepared (no back up pump), uncoordinated, understaffed during repopulation times, and apparently not too worried about it.
Yesterdays call from the COUNTY (recorded at 3:15pm and delivered by phone at 7:45pm to my house) referred to a written notice of do's/don't's that was delivered by the Ramona district to all homes. This "notice" never reached my home, or any of my neighbors ... we met and asked as we had all taken showers because we had been told (by the big sign at SDCE, and the website, and KOGO) that all but drinking was okay.
I am grateful for the county coming in to save our butts with this water problem ... and hope we collectively kick a few butts locally when local life is back in motion again.
Thanks to Packards these past few days ... coffee has been a great friend. :) As have alll of the crowd who comes there to see how they can help.
Not enough of the water problem. Yes many people lost everything and we should all do what we can to help. but not everyone is dealing with just an uncomfortable situation. I did not lose my house but everything inside is covered with a layer of ash and reaks of smoke, there where ember that came in through the threshold,that is how feirce this fire was. Given this I need to use water to clean this mess up. Touching the water is less healthy than breathing and touching all this soot. I am not taking a shower or drinking the water, but i am not stink'n around waiting to fill my pool.
I'd like to hear from some of you that have used the water to shower. Any effects? Thanks, I really need to wash this nasty hair before going to work tomorrow!!
I usually laugh at conspiracy theory folks but with the recent record of our water department it deserves some thought. Why has no one from RMWD had the guts to actually tell us what went wrong - and when it will be fixed? Could it be worse than the "no spare fuse" rumors? How long does it take to test water for contamination? I can't see this being more than a few hours - unless the district is using their KMart Super-duper home chemistry kit. And where would we all be if the District hadn't been bullied into letting us all back in? Would we be camping down the hill through next week while they tried to figure this out? I'm beginning to believe that the water is fine and that we are all being punished for daring to be in our homes.
You might be right Lew. Everytime I called RMWD for the past 48 hrs, I got a different story. Even the "other" super nice water crews that came from Helix, etc. were told different things. Totally unacceptable and disorganized. If our health was really at risk here, wouldn't there be one consistant constant message?
The dire warning of "DO NOT HAVE ANY HUMAN CONTACT WITH THE WATER" seems a little extreme and maybe a little bit of CYA in this era of liability lawsuits. Where does our water come from? The Lake Poway reservoir or the reservoir over by Scripps ranch? My recollection is that while you can't swim in Lake Poway for reasons of *introducing* contamination to the water, you can go fishing there and take boat rides. How do you fish without touching the water? So we draw water from the reservoirs into our water purification and distribution system and we are worried that it gets more contaminated than it already is sitting there exposed to the elements in the reservoirs? I too received the 3:15pm "no contact" notice at 8:22pm which was recorded by my answering machine. So RMWD gives the warning 5 hours after they "determine" there may be a contamination problem. Talk about liability if people really were to get sick. I showered after the warning because I believed it was absurd. However, I am not drinking the water, but no human contact? Oh please.
To add to my post at 10:39, it also seems RMWD may be using this "health issue" to try to distract from their incompetence at managing this whole disaster.
Re Anonymous at 11:13... You may be right. Perhaps they think we will all be so grateful to have a shower next week that we wont ask the embarrassing questions. Lew
This morning KUSI said doing laundry was o.k.- So after I wash my clothes, I'll put on my little rubber gloves to transfer clothes from washer to dryer. I notice the earlier post about water already in the pipes. Can't drink it now, but if all clear is given in an hour, isn't it the same water?
I think once this has all passed, we should seriously consider a recall (if they do not voluntarily resign) of all but one of the Water Board members (Kit Kessinger). It must be tough to be the lone voice for concern at the water district board meetings, but after this disaster we need people thinking about the potential for crisis and not about how they can rook more money out of Ramona.
rahodeb has had ongoing contact with the water and, gulp, even drank some of it. rahodeb has not experienced any noticable side-effects. this includes having used the water before it went off, then the last remnants of backflow from my own system, then some of the water when the pressure began coming back, then my own backflow after they shut my valve, then more since they turned it back on. your mileage may vary, but nothing happened to me (yet!).
hey anonymous @ 12:38 PM - how does one tell the difference between mitigating crises (which seldom comes free) and rooking water customers? i want to be on the lookout for it.
our present water board and district staff have done a great job over many years while keeping rates steady. seems to me they need to work on their communication skills, and i'm eager to hear what they have to say about this, but until then they have my support. no doubt we will soon return to 3-4 letters a week in the sentinel about them. surely that will clear things up.
My husband took a shower last night, me, this morning. I ran the dishwasher on "sanitize" and did my wash this morning. I have a feeling this was all about sudden surge of usage than an acutual health issue. I won't drink it as yet, unitil I hear otherwise. But since this big ol' water tank in SDCE serves my neighborhood, how much water needs to pass 15 miles from the reservoir?? As long as we don't ingest it, it shoul be fine.
It looks like you've been drinking the water, rahodeb. This issue regarding reserve water in case of a crisis has been an issue for years, and it has finally come home to roost. Watch for your water rates to go up since they'll need to actually build what they've promised to do all these years.
I monitored the TV news daily, I watched the Ramona Sentinal site hourly, I blogged any info I had during the week. I only heard one story about the water problem. That is....
The fires burned through power lines that supply the RMWD pumping station (in Poway). It took RMWD awhile to get 1 generator. Then awhile longer to get a second. Then maybe even awhile longer to get a third. All the while they had trouble re-pressurizing the system because (a) these generators did not supply the same amount of power available via power line and (b) many water valves were left open or were being used thus not allowing the "weak" pump system to pressurize.
Additionally, multiple backflow pipes/valves melted during the fires allowing contaminents back into the water system.
I'm new to Ramona, and don't consider myself a sheep when it comes to listening to politicians, but I didn't see anything here that seemed out of line with reality. I don't know how much of this should have been prepared for. Will be interesting to hear if Poway and other districts are prepared for this type of calamity.
As for the history of RMWD, I know nothing. But I'll be watching to see where my votes should go.
Front page has been updated, looks as though the ban to bath has been lifted and I called 211 to confirm, however they are recommending that you avoid eyes, nose, mouth etc.. Huge thanks to the Sentinel for keeping us informed!! A MUST read for all Ramona Residents.
The very least Ramona residents deserve is actionable, day by day information on their water supply so they can evaluate their personal risk. At the least we deserve to know:
-- What organisms may be present -- What are the potential consequences of ingesting them -- What are the risks of dermal contact -- What tests are being run and what results do they produce -- Who is running them -- Where are they being run -- How long does it take to run them -- What are acceptable water quality standards for Ramona -- If the water does not meet acceptable standards, what will be done, by whom, and how long will it take
We pay for this service. We are entitled to this information.
Anonymous at 8:28 AM hit the nail right on the head. This kind of information would establish that we have a professional competent water board. The fact that we don't have any of this information either indicates that they are hiding something they don't want us to know - or that they don't have a clue. Either way I am not feeling a "warm fuzzy" here. And I am not inclined to get reckless with water use. When systems lose pressure what often can happen is raw sewage backflow into the system.
Each home should have a backflow preventer so sewage can't back up. Ramona has been like a puppy for so long - we beg to be petted and taken care of, we obey, fetch, love unconditionally & we keep getting kicked in the guts! WE Ramona citizens are the only ones concerned about our welfare. This latest fire should spark us into true action to become incorporated! We have many many excellent, knowledgeable folks here to run our town the way WE want it to be run -- BY us, FOR us! Attend the RMWD meeting tomorrow night at 6 pm -- I expect a HUGE turnout! The RMWD answers to the EPA so if there's any misconduct, hopefully the EPA will stand up for us residents. But WE can call for a recall of the incompetents right now. Once we get back to our "routines" everyone tends to simmer down and forget/forgive the past mistakes. What will it take for YOU to want to have control over YOUR own life and livlihood??? Let's become the biggest little city in the county and take care of our own! Karen P
Anonymous...I totally agree with you. I've lived in this quaint little town for 14 years and am continually dismayed at the lack of care we're given from elected officials during a crisis. Having worked at the SD Water Authority as a Public Information Officer in my past, the first and foremost role is to INFORM. Had it not been for the Ramona Sentinel, I wouldn't know what's going on...it's time to stop this nonsense and make our voices heard!
"Board president Robert Krysak has established an ad hoc committee of directors Doug Wilsman and Jim Robinson to prepare a complete analysis of the district’s response to the fire and to determine what, if anything, went askew, and what to do to correct it."
Isn't that cute? Krysak has assigned the foxes to count the chickens. We need an INDEPENDENT examination of the RMWD. Current senior management is incompetent...and that includes the Board of Directors.
This is a very small venue for the meeting. I would encourage all residents to get there early so that the "friendly" aren't taking up all the seats...
Anyone have any idea of the status of the Hogervorst family/egg ranch off Dye Road, if they are okay? Did the fire reach Dye Road/San Vicente Road? I know the family and one member lives on San Vicente Road, not far from Wildcat Canyon. However, I have not been able to reach them. Thanks!
Thanks to our great Ramona Sentinel once again for letting us know that our water is safe for all purposes! WHY DIDN"T WE GET A REVERSE 911 CALL ABOUT THIS??? THE RMWD IS SOOOOOOOO SCREWED UP! Let's get them out of office NOW!
I've driven by Dye Road and did not see any burned out areas. There is a Google map of all announced lost structures at www.ramonarelief.com - you might search there.
On another note - regarding the editor's comments on the main page ... one thing to note is that these Board Members are paid. I spent today roaming through the years of minutes on www.rmwd.org to see exactly how much (someone told me $100K ... but I'd be shocked at that so I wanted data). I did not find budget numbers, but in reading through minutes over the past 4 years, what I did see was an awful lot of "no recommendations" and no completed projects. Lots of planning, lots of talk of "reasons why" this or that would not work ... but not a visible sign of leadership or emergency planning.
Even their numbers for helping to conserve water - through improvements and leak detection and encouraging less use - all those numbers are essentially non-existing.
Yeah, a new source of water would be wonderful ... but what about doing something (besides a flyer in a billing mailer) to proactively help increase our reserves by starting with those of us who currently use it.
This fire has shown that Ramonans are quick to support and get involved ... it also showed that despite the Sentinel's remarks several weeks ago that we have no good leadership (except the Water Board - they seemed to like those leaders ... and criticized most of our other groups of UNpaid board members) ... we do have good leaders. They just have not been tapped by this agency.
In 4 years since the Cedar Fires ... I could not see any significant improvements by this Board, though I'd love to hear them tell us what they have actually accomplished while running this Board for years and years and years. Can they name just 3 big completed items? Not "plans" or "reports" ... but actual actions that have improved our water security and reserves?
I'll keep reading the minutes ... please let me know if any of you come across some action and proactive BIG thinking by this board.
They should have asked for help sooner ... I'm happy the county came in to help save the day after the firefighters helps save our town.
Anybody wonder why the editors comments did not include the fact that the water board rejected help from the county of San Diego? The board was quick to run from the fires, but were also quick to reject any help. Kinda weird if you ask me. Just my 2 cents.
I tried to register my phone number to get the reverse 911 calls ( I didn't get them Sunday night!) and from the website I was told to visit ( run by Homeland Security) only San Diego city residents could register. Anyone know of a site where county residents ( ie: Ramona folks!) can register for reverse 911????
Mr. Editor, The problem you seem to miss in your remarkable defense of RMWD and Mother Nature is straightforward. They (RMWD) did not show any urgency in resolving the problem. Call it a lack of leadership or planning but the response was not what the citizens expected. RMWD left Ramona hanging!
Disaster happens and all the planning in the world cannot overcome the power of Mother Nature. You cannot possibly prepare for every potential problem. All anyone can ask is that you respond to the problem with urgency and dedication to resolve. RMWD did neither and that is why everyone is TICKED-OFF. And by the way anyone with appropriate identification for services impacted was allowed entry back into Ramona on Tuesday.
I do not believe in public hangings or execution. But I would expect anyone and everyone in this town to not accept the inaction of RMWD. They did not respond to the situation well.
And Mr. Editor I would expect you to LEAD this town with opinion that will help shape this community into a City with valued leadership and not nonsensical rambling in the defense of the RMWD. This will only leave us in upheaval and unincorporated forever.
You can register cell phones for reverse 911 on KGTV (channel 10 ) website. Can't seem to find any info for home phone. --------------------- As far as RMWD board members, we all have personal problems and people to take of. Their main responsibility as elected officials was to keep us informed of events pertaining to our lack of water,including problems and solutions. Why did Supv. Jacob have to step in and why was it that when RMWD board members did speak of water issue, there were 10 different stories going around? Everything from hoses being left on ( how many of those were well water?) , reservoir depleted due to firefighting efforts, ancient pumps with no backup fuses or generators. Poway is one station, how many others do we have? There should be an alternate because of fire and/or earthquake. What do they get paid per year? --I feel better now.Time for a shower.
I don't even know where to start here. I can't believe the bashing that is going on. You should all be ashamed! My uncle lost his house the first day of the fire. Monday morning he was called by the RMWD to help with the pumps as he has done contract work with them before. He went to work for them and worked 16, yes that is SIXTEEN, hour days for the next 3 days. This is without having a home to go back to. He worked in Poway with the generator issues. He worked at Mt. Woodson while it was still burning. He worked his ass off. And here you all sit in your homes and point fingers and blame on the RMWD and say that they aren't leaders. Well my uncle is a leader and went out there and worked while you were out of town belly-aching because you couldn't get back in. He was working so that he could get the water back to the homes before you got there so that you wouldn't have any complications, questions, concerns about the water. Maybe you all should have followed the recommended evacuation and stayed out of town for another 24-48 hours. Then the RMWD might have had a chance to get the water up and running for you. Instead you came home, took your showers, watered your lawns and BITCHED about it all. Guess what. My uncle doesn't have a shower or a lawn. You all have computers in which to sign on to this blog and post comments. My uncle doesn't have a computer but is busting his hump to make your homes even more comfortable. Why didn't RMWD contact the County? Because SDCE was helping them with the generators along with companies that they contract with. The county was not needed at that time. Why isn't the RMWD website up-to-date? Maybe the person that updates it lost their home. And if it was updated wouldn't you all just then bitch about the fact that RMWD can take the time to update the website but not fix the water. RMWD is stuck between a rock and a hardplace. You think that RMWD has CalTrans and reverse 911 on their speed dial? Seriously, you all need to back off. I grew up in Ramona and thought that it was such a great town with such great people. But you have become a mob (right out of Frankenstein) and you have your torches ready to put RMWD up in flames. Hasn't there been enough fire in Ramona? Instead of sitting her blogging and bitching, why don't you call RMWD and see if you can do some help. I am sure that some of you out there can use your big mouths and great ideas and perfect logic and 20/20 vision (not hindsight) to plan for a perfect Ramona. More power to you. To my uncle, THANK YOU for all your hard work and sacrifices for a town that will hopefully become appreciative.
From reading Keith Hansen's editorial in today's Sentinel, two facts become readily apparent: Hansen is a hand-maiden for the RMWD, and Hansen has absolutely no clue how things really work. He tosses out one red-herring argument after another in a pathetic attempt to apologise for the incompetenece of the management of the RMWD.
Hansen argues that the board had to evacuate like everybody else, which is true, but so what? The board is not involved in the day-to-day management of the district. The board is responsibile for hiring competent management to run the district.
Hansen argues that nobody could have stopped the fire, which is also true, but so what? What has that to do with seeing there was a backup generator at the pump site in case power failed? Hospitals have back-up generators, fire stations have back-up generators, police stations have back-up generators. Why is the only source of water for 30,000 people not protected with a back-up generator?
Why then, according to public statements of RMWD management published in the Sentinel, were they unaware of a lack of water until Tuesday morning when a low pressure alarm went off?
Why then, according to public statements by Diane Jacob, were the 25% of RMWD employees who came to work during the fire only working 8-hour shifts when other emergency pesonnel worked 24-hour and longer shifts?
Why then, according to public statements by Diane Jacob, did the RMWD only ask for help to restart the water system last Thursday, and even then only after getting leaned on by county administrators?
Fulano and others, Why do you think that Diane Jacobs is SO right and RMWD is so wrong? Care to hear both sides of the story or are you just wanting to back a politician? RMWD did not work 8 hour days. They worked 16 hour days. My uncle was one of them. He lost his house and work those hours along with any of the RMWD people that were still in town. It is amazing that you all think that RMWD was fully staffed and operational when the ENTIRE TOWN OF RAMONA WAS EVACUATED. Let me repeat that, THE ENTIRE TOWN OF RAMONA WAS EVACUATED. And yet in your minds, it seems that water district employees were to stay behind and make sure that all was well. In Ramona it was, until the generators in POWAY burned down. I guess RMWD should have known that an apocalyptic fire would race through Ramona and down to Poway and they should have been prepared. I am sure that you were prepared for an apocalyptic fire that raced through Ramona and down to Poway. Oh, wait, no you are as shocked as all of us. I am so dumbfounded by the comments and witch hunt here.
Andrea, we are all very sorry for your uncle's loss and have the utmost gratitude for his hard work while pushing aside his own problems and grief and helping the Ramona people. The whole water issue was very frustrating and, even though it may be wrong (or it may be later known that it is justified), people are angry and they need to be able to voice their anger and frustrations. I don't believe that any of them have said that the employees of the water district are lazy or should have stayed behind when all of us were told to leave. We are only saying that in hindsight, many things could possibly have been handled differently and these things should be addressed so that they don't happen again. Once again, please thank your uncle for his hard work and selflessness.
Sorry I agree with Andrea. You all wanted back in and you got it and you are now kvetching about the water board and their lack of experience? How many of you know how to run a water company? How many of you have experience in natural disasters? You got back in when you were bitching about that and we all knew you'd start bitching about the water next. You are getting angry over the wrong things! How many of you would not have lost your homes if you had cleared vegetation from your house giving the fire fighters half a chance at saving your house? How many of you knew of the fire danger in the area but over the years have done nothing about it? I'm sorry for those that lost your homes but quit placing blame where it does not belong! Go help out and get your town back in order! And to those of you who defied evacuation orders, you are LUCKY the national guard didn't bust your butts for it. You are lucky you didn't wind up like the couple in Escondido! Your house is not worth your life. When they say EVERYONE needs to evacuate..it means EVERYONE! YEESH!
Anonymous 10:42: You speak as if you weren't a part of everyone who evacuated and wanted to go back to their homes, which leads me to believe that either 1. You weren't evacuated and you're speaking as an outsider who had no idea what it was like not being able to return to your homes and then, when you finally were let back, not having water or 2. You were the perfect evacuee who did everything they were told and then, happily held out until everyone gave you the all clear on everything, which means you arrived back home yesterday when the water warnings were cleared. Either way, I'm thinking that with the knowledge you so obviously possess about disaster awareness, you should be putting that to better use, and instead of separating yourself from those of us who are so painfully hasty and irresponsible, you should be helping us to become more like you.
I haven't heard anyone bitch about the water district employees. In fact, they have been commended for doing a good job for what they got. What people are bitching about is not the lack of work on the valve turners, it was the decisions that come from above. What people are pissed about is the fact that the water district did not ask for help. I hear mentions that everyone was evacuated. Very true! If my pumps went down and my employees were all gone, I would be at Diane Jacobs door begging for help. But there was none of that. What you have is a good ole boys club running the water district who are too stubborn to let people in to assist in there mis management. When your in a position of power like the board, you don't want people coming in and telling you what to do. But guess what, 30,000 + residence were waiting to get home and they were still letting there ego's get in the way. How come once Diane Jacobs could help, the process sped up and within 24hours, we we all at home again? Remember, like evacuating on time...asking for help on time is the same. Don't wait till it's too late, cause in the end, you will burn for making the wrong decision.
Anonymous 11:22am, People have been saying that employees only worked 8 hour days when the fires hit. Your wonderful Diane Jacobs said this. WRONG! This was not a good ole boys club. You have such a conspiracy thing going on. What "help" did Diane Jacobs give? Did she go flush out pipes? Did she work on generators? No. She bitched on tv about the work being done, became a rabble rouser and got people into their homes sooner than they should have been. Now you are home and bitch about no water when you all knew the water wasn't ready. RMWD had SDGE working with them to restore water from DAY1. I guess SDGE is a good ole boy too, right? I guess asking SDGE to help doesn't count with you all. What was the county going to do when the rest of the county was on fire? The only thing Diane Jacobs did was bitch and cause all of you to bitch.
It's America, we can bitch if we want!! LOL. Seriously though she is the one who got the ball rolling and the ONLY one who actually let us know what the hell was going on. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't she order all of the porto pottys and showers? Nobody is bitching about SDGE, you know why? Because they were on top of it and didn't hide from the media. I still think the water distric made some traggic mistakes and if they don't get smacked down, they will at least learn from this terrible example of what not to do during this traggity. They still haven't explained why they didn't ask for help from the county. If it wasen't for all fo the water districts who came in to help, they would still be turning meters on. I say, Thank you Diane Jacobs!!
Unfortunately the "squeaky wheel" theory prevails ... which is why so many go the bitchin' path first, from our country politicians to our locals (including me) - because it unfortunately seems to be the only thing that creates action with the status quo.
What I gained from the meeting last night was that the big failure was a communication failure. With all of the RMWD board connections, and all of their clients (us).
By spending six hours waiting for SDGE to communicate through the "proper channels" to learn about the down power source at the Poway pump - we lost valuable time.
Rules and procedures in emergencies simply don't cut it. Any of us would have been calling radio stations, calling everyone we could possibly think of, to get those answers. Not wait for a return call from someone who would undoubtedly have many calls in his/her voicemail box.
Also ... by having the water go down at the airport on Tuesday - keeping the bombers out of the air for 4 hours (pointed out last night by Sharon Q. - who was one of the best floor speakers of the bunch) - we lost critical fire fighting time, not just for Ramona, but every other part of North County.
There needs to be a PR/Community commumications director from Ramona Water to their "town" ... this problem was worsened by 100 times due to their inability to communicate what was really going on ... and I think we all would have been much more understanding if we weren't left to "guess" what the heck was really going on.
The rank and file of RMWD have always been hard workers, and quick to respond in the past to any issues we've had on an individual basis.
But the lack of clear leadership, and taking responsibility, and taking action - that is a failure at the top. Weaknesses that have been there for many years, but ones that become very apparent under the stress of a crisis - one that requires effective leadership.
I did not see any clear process of collecting the comments last night - something I mentioned when I spoke a short bit. I do hope they have an OUTSIDE investigation of qualified residents on how to make this better ... there were more excuses voiced last night by the board than solutions, which has me worried for our next fire, which will undoubtedly happen.
I encourage everyone to keep these topics alive, and that we require new leaders in this Board, and a portal to collect all of the many strong recommendations made last night to ACT on ... and not simply just "hear about" and forget.
If there is not a report on what went wrong and what to do within 30 days then we'll know that there is brushing under the rug happening.
Thanks to all those who spoke up last night - a lot of very good comments and ideas shared.
Anonymous 12:32, What "tragic" mistake did RMWD make? (And that is tragic with one g, not 2) Seriously, the tragedy (not traggity) was the fire, not anything that RMWD did. Communication was a problem but phone lines and cell phone towers were burned also. It just astounds me that you are all so worked up over this. I hope each of you runs for the board of RMWD and run it the way "it should be" and learn a valuable lesson that things go wrong. Get over yourselves.
Andrea- Sorry about your uncles loss and I commend his hard work but I don't see anyone criticizng him. Take a breath. We suffered damage and know plenty of people who lost their homes. Thats not the subject. The problem is we pay enormous fees to the RMWD for our water and fire protection. If they can't deliver and there's a problem it needs to be fixed. The board has never realy been up to par. Look at the access to Lake Ramona. Isn't the access road to this public domain owned by a former RMWD board member? Save that for another time. Problem is all types of catastophies need to be lined up, evaluated and solutions in place. Same thing could happen in an earthquake. Where is the plan for this type of emergency. This is what the board is elected to do. If they can't handle it..... I evacuated, was told it was ok to return home. So, why are we all at fault for wanting to see how our homes and property fared? All I wanted was direct answers to the questions posed about water problem, and all I heard was reason after reason and blame on others by the board. Stand up, tell the truth and let it be!
128 comments:
The water on Country Villa has just been turned on, not drinkable but has lots of other uses....I can hear the toilets singing away.
Selby
Kahoots on the corner of 78 and Main Street says they have water, too. Hopefully just a matter of time before RMWD can get the meters turned back on!
Does anyone know of an official resource for the status of the water system. I called the water district and there is nothing. I live in the estates and will return when we can shower. Any info would help.
no water at my house on west end. my meter remains turned off. no update on www.rmwd.org either. hopefully their webmaster is out turning valves right now.
I live in SDCE - water back on. We were told my someone from Helix water it is only for toilet use. They still needed to test the water.
At SDCE, Bellemore Dr - Helix Water turning it on!!!
SDCE- Daza Drive- Water on since 7:30 this a.m.
Does anyone know if the water is on on dPoderio Drive?
I LIVE IN SDCE. ON BERRYESSA DR OFF ARENA DR. WATER HAS NOT YET BEEN TURN ON.
What roads are open to get back into the estates?
Is Wildcat open form Lakeside?
Is Poway road open to 67 and 67 to Ramona?
What about 78 from Escondido?
Thanks to all for being so helpful.
SDCE - Del Amo at Gymkhana, water NOT on yet...
78 is still closed to through traffic. Your best bet is to take 67 through Poway to get back into SDCE.
WILDCAT CANYON RD FROM LAKESIDE TO THE ESTATES IS OPEN .
We live along Ash and the water has been back on since around 10:30am. I already see a neighbor watering their lawn...is it O.K. to do same (yard and plants are extremely dry), or wait till rest of system is back up?
DO YOU KNOW WHEN WATER TURNS BACK ON IN THE SDCE?
Why is it so hard to understand water for toilets only until the system is all up and running and the water quality has been checked out. People who are water their lawns and plants ought to be fined!!!
GRACE COMMUNITY CHURCH
OPEN HOUSE
SUNDAY, Oct 28th
9:00a-12:00p
This site is wonderful. Let's start listing phone numbers or volunteer opportunities for those of us who would like to get out and help. I am feeling so fortunate that my house is still standing, but I know many others who were not so lucky. What are some specific things we can do?
If anyone has displaced horses, I have 2 corrals available for use in SDCE. Just provide feed and you can use them here until you have facilities again. email me at gwpel@cox.net. I don't have water yet, but I heard is being turned on today...
What about the people who have automatic sprinklers and haven't been able to get back to turn them off?
One of the things that could be done for the victims whose homes were destroyed would be to organize "sifting" teams, to help sift through rubble and find precious articles or keepsake items. My wife and I are heading to ranson's to buy lumber and metal screen to make sifting boxes and plan to assist one family we know. You might want to contact someone you know whose house burned down and offer the same help.
I was told by the RMWD employee turning my meter back on that it's OK to water plants. Apparently there's plenty of water. Don't drink it, though
Great suggestion Hermbase!
Nothing on rmwd.com. Don't vote for any incumbent water board members.
I called the water company at 12:00 today and they said it is safe to shower ! But NO DRINKING !
My water is on here on Realty road.
I would just like to thank Mike W for going on KOGO and telling EVERYONE what the problem was so that Diane Jacob and others could see what the situation really was and force RMWD to get help. Thanks for bringing us HOME! If we are ever going to incorporate there is a lot that needs to be done in the way of planning for an emergency and the break down of communication.
Denise
Water is on at the North Ramona Street are. Nice to use the toilets. Can we use showers or not?
Can we use our Dishwashers and laundry?
Have we heard of Ramona schools open MONDAY.???
Ramona Schools are not open til Tuesday... For further Updates Go to: http://www.ramona.k12.ca.us/ & Click on the Fire Update (left bar)
Teachers are all to report to their sites Monday morning at 8:00 to regroup and do whatever needs to be done to get the schools up and ready. Children return Tuesday.
Ramona schools are closed on Monday. You can check out their website for more info.
Can we get someone from the water district to put up a list of what we can use the water for. The rmwd website is worthless. Same for the caltrans site. show me a mat with the open and closed roads. I have gotten more and better information here than anywhere else. Thanks sooooo much. Keep the faith
FROM VICKIE AT THE WATER DISTRICT:
Crews have been turning water meters on since 6 am, this water is available for "flush only", all other uses must wait until the Health Department approves the water quality... (guessing here at 24-48 hrs) DO NOT USE THE WATER FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN YOUR TOILET AT THIS POINT!
October 27, 2007 10:15 AM
I just called the RMWD and received an automated message. The messages says we can us the water for flushing, showers and brushing teeth if we don't swallow. NOT for cooking or washing food. Also to conserve because we are on limited supply so we should not water lawns or hose things down. God Bless.
A private blogg has opened to the public...
http://ramona-fire-2007.blogspot.com/
We have space available for a few displaced horses in the West End, very close to Daniel's West. You can keep them here for as long as you need. If you provide their feed we can provide the space.
email me at weetyjones@aol.com
Any word on Raymond Ave.???
Water please? We would sure appreciate it if they cold turn ours back on here in the west end.
Thank you
Water on Raymond just came on.
Jana at Water District say the STATE OF CA has reversed the decision to use the water.
My information is coming directly to the Chamber of Commerce from the Water District.
Info we are providing on this water situation is coming directly from the Water District to the Chamber of Commerce to you who are reading this. This in not rumor or conjecture. We will continue to update this as we get new info.
There is a change. The State has decided "no human contact" for now. That means you can flush and wash clothes. Nothing else.
Volunteers are needed at:
Ramona Community Center/Senior Center on Aqua Lane across from the Rodeo/Fair Grounds
and
Mt View Church on Ash and Meadowbrook
I am recommending ramonarelief.com as a resource for posting info and finding info. They have categories such as housing available, housing needed, pets found, etc.
Go back to the Sentinel home page because there is conflicting info here on this blog. Read the leadoff story.It has been updated.
Can someone please tell me what is wrong with the water? Is it that there are contaminents in it like microbes and such or is it because there are heavy chemicals in it? I had called the water department and their recording said showers were OK. I took a shower and now my skin has a burning sensation. Can someone please treat the residents of Ramona with a minimal amount of respect and tell us what exactly we are dealing with here? I called several friends and they also followed the RWD recomendation (took showers) and did not get it near our mouths.
When the Water Department man turned our water back on he did NOT SAY ANYTHING to me! This is really unacceptable!!!
Do not touch water
The following information is an advisory to residents in the Ramona Municipal Water District at 3:15 p.m today.
DO NOT HAVE ANY HUMAN CONTACT WITH THE WATER.
Local water agency crews are opening water meters today and tomorrow in Ramona to resume municipal delivery of water to residents and businesses. If your water meter has been opened and municipal water is being delivered to your property, please DO NOT HAVE ANY HUMAN CONTACT WITH THE WATER.
Bottled water should be used for all drinking, including baby formula and juice, brushing teeth, washing dishes, making ice and food preparation.
Use bottled water or a hand sanitizer for hand washing.
Hot showers are available on Aqua Lane. Municipal water is permissible only for use in toilets and to do laundry. A formal UNSAFE WATER ALERT NOTICE was posted at Ramona residences on Thursday. Please refer to that notice for more information.
Additionally, outdoor water use is still prohibited. This advisory is in effect until further notice.
For additional information, visit www.sdcountyresponse.com or call 211.
DO NOT TOUCH OR DRINK THE WATER!! USE IT FOR TOILETS AND IRRIGATION ONLY! There is an update on the website!
The rash someone mentioned is because the water is contaminated and is reacting with your skin. Call your doc if you are concerned.
I also have not been able to get a straight answer from the water district ... though I appreciate the timely info from the Sentinel. You would think the RMWD office would proactively send out a message to our homes on this - or set up a phone line to allow us to call and get timely info that is not contradictory.
My neighbors out here in SDCE ended up being evacuated to Barona, and locked-in at the hotel - which was gracious to offer free room and food to all that ended up there ... including the chair of the water board, who my neighbors met for the first time.
My neighbors shared that this gentleman found the situation funny, and made light of all of it, and that they got free great food and free supplies, and did not once make any mention of trying to coordinate HIS responsibilities to protect and deliver our water resources.
My neighbors asked about why there was no backup pump systems (they were shocked) and his response was "oh the Ramona residents would never pay for that." Really?
This gentleman also made light of the businesses not being able to operate in town due to HIS group's lack of preparedness. He said the businesses would not be affected because they are not served by the Ramona system. Really? How many restaurants and other businesses have you all seen this week? I've seen most shut down ... and this lack of revenue is due to our water disaster - and not the fire disaster.
I've heard there is a Ramona Water board meeting Tuesday 6pm at the Community Center. If the Sentinel can verify this, please do. I will certainly be there ... it is time to get some people in charge of the water dept who when an emergency arises are actually worried about caring for our citizens instead of enjoying free food and supplies and treating this whole experience as something to enjoy.
Our water board sucks. Has for years, and hopefully now after we clean the contamination in the water ... we can clean out the contamination running the department.
Lisa Wagner
I just love how totally disorganized the water information has been.
They turn on the water, then 4 hours later tell you not to touch it, this following the written order on the RMWD website saying that it is good for anything except drinking.
I really wish I knew what I could do.
Thinking their website was gospel, I took it that we were not to drink it, so we started showering and filling the pool. Then we get a call that we are not to touch it. I wonder if I will melt away now?
The sign coming into Ramona says not to drink it, doesn't say anything about touching it.
Does anyone really know what we can do with the water coming into our homes?
You would think with all of the communications technology around, we could get this straight.
NO HUMAN CONTACT WITH WATER..that is the latest posted on www.ramonasentinel.com and call 7891330. No showers, washing hands...too late for me but thought I'd let all know. Thanks
Well, the RMWD site earlier didn't say anything about not touching the water. This afternoon, it said it was ok to touch it, even ok to brush your teeth with it. They have since removed that information from their site.
I can't understand why the RMWD site doesn't say anything any longer about what we can and can't do with their water.
I guess we have to trust Maureen Roberson for our health now :)
I guess I wasn't as much asking what we should be doing, as I was making noise about how inconsistent the variety of information out there is.
One source says one thing, another source says another. And the one source I would thing would be "golden", the RMWD website, doesn't say anything.
Thanks Maureen!!!
Does anybody know when the water will be 'clean?'
I caught the tail end of a live report on KUSI earlier this evening and thought I heard the report say it would be another week!
So, the latest link (actually from the updated RMWD website) is here:
http://www.sdcountyemergency.com/newsreleases/102707_1615CountywideFireUpdate170.pdf
It says that we can use water for toilets and laundry. I wonder now how we transfer the wet clothes from the washer to the dryer without touching them?
Hmm...
You can train your dog to transfer the clothes. They are not fully human, and thereby don't fall under the classification of "human" in the "human contact" clause.
You can launder the clothes, you just can't dry them, nor can you wear them after they are laundered.
WHAT IS UP???
I drove into the Estates this afternoon and saw a caltrans sign saying "Do Not Drink Water". After checking with the blog, I determined that we could bath and flush toilets. Now, at 8:22pm, I get a reverse 911 call that states it is a 3:15pm update, that says "NO HUMAN CONTACT WITH THE WATER". Don't you think the caltrans sign should have said, "Water, for toilets only"? UGH!!!
great now my skin will probably melt off before dawn.... I took a shower before the call not to have human contact with the water!!! Oh but how wonderful it was after 5 days to finally feel clean, what a way to go! I just have stinky kids now, no showers for them still!
Between 5pm and 8pm all 5 of us took showers too. No melting skin yet. Will update later.
Yea, but did you touch your wet clothes?
Probably alot of worry for nothing and the water was safe all along. I too took a shower after not being able to mask it with perfume or deoderant and so far so good.
I was told that I could use the water to water my horses, so I dumped all the buckets and refilled them today. Will they be ok? Does anybody know?
After reading all the blogs, I am going to assume that not using the water for personal hygine is not a great idea. Lets all wait until we are told to use it other than flushing. Enough with the water.
We have many people in Ramona without housing, especially the ones in the Black Canyon area. The media has focused on the RB and Poway area, but does everyone realize that we have lost 196 homes!! Some of these people have no insurance nor money. Lets focus on this issue and use our energy for this. The water is a washed issue!
Correction-
Using the water for hygine is not a good idea!
If water is unsafe now, then its tested and its o.k. to use, how do I know if the water I'm using is clean or if its contaminated water thats been sitting in the pipes?How do they flush the pipes? Also, the grocery stores are using water on the produce- where is that water coming from?
RMWD needs to learn to budget. Where is all of my money going that I pay every month? Why haven't pipelines been updated? When our water was turned on today we were told we could use it for everyhing except drinking.
All you people care is about the water. It will be ok! Give it some time. There are more imporatant things than worring about the water in the pipes. Lets put things into prospective people. Be thankful that you can gripe about where your water is coming from since you have a house and computer to do it from!
Are there different pipes for the water used by vets, doctors,dentists,restaurants, grocery stores, ... in town? This is ridiculous. It sounds like a bit of paranoia.
I just took a sponge bath/shower with only about a half gallon of water. Feel great now...
Heard water was ok- RMWD just didn't want whole town rushing to do laundry, water yards etc---
If the water was really contaminated,they would tell us the exact chemical composition of the water, as well as possible side effects to drinking it. Plus, we would have heard of people actually getting sick on this blog. So, the real issue was to lie to the people about the water to buy time so the RMWD could protect themselves from the backlash that is coming.
With the recent enlightenment of the competence of the RMWD how safe was the water a week ago? At any condition the water coming out of a treatment plant is cleaner than our oceans and bays. I would not drink that water either. the 911 attacks entered us in to an age of fear. Our own president has made using fear and threats for persuasion the norm. The warnings about the water are so everyone does not start using every water supply source in every house all at the same time. Thanks to terrorists, officials feel they need to scare us to make their point because they do not have the competence to explain.
I agree with the "it'll be okay" comment about the water ... of course there are worse situations for many of our neighbors who have lost everything.
There does need to be, however, responsibility taken by those people who "run" the water district. They were unprepared (no back up pump), uncoordinated, understaffed during repopulation times, and apparently not too worried about it.
Yesterdays call from the COUNTY (recorded at 3:15pm and delivered by phone at 7:45pm to my house) referred to a written notice of do's/don't's that was delivered by the Ramona district to all homes. This "notice" never reached my home, or any of my neighbors ... we met and asked as we had all taken showers because we had been told (by the big sign at SDCE, and the website, and KOGO) that all but drinking was okay.
I am grateful for the county coming in to save our butts with this water problem ... and hope we collectively kick a few butts locally when local life is back in motion again.
Thanks to Packards these past few days ... coffee has been a great friend. :) As have alll of the crowd who comes there to see how they can help.
Lisa Wagner
Not enough of the water problem. Yes many people lost everything and we should all do what we can to help. but not everyone is dealing with just an uncomfortable situation. I did not lose my house but everything inside is covered with a layer of ash and reaks of smoke, there where ember that came in through the threshold,that is how feirce this fire was. Given this I need to use water to clean this mess up. Touching the water is less healthy than breathing and touching all this soot. I am not taking a shower or drinking the water, but i am not stink'n around waiting to fill my pool.
I'd like to hear from some of you that have used the water to shower. Any effects? Thanks, I really need to wash this nasty hair before going to work tomorrow!!
I usually laugh at conspiracy theory folks but with the recent record of our water department it deserves some thought. Why has no one from RMWD had the guts to actually tell us what went wrong - and when it will be fixed? Could it be worse than the "no spare fuse" rumors? How long does it take to test water for contamination? I can't see this being more than a few hours - unless the district is using their KMart Super-duper home chemistry kit. And where would we all be if the District hadn't been bullied into letting us all back in? Would we be camping down the hill through next week while they tried to figure this out? I'm beginning to believe that the water is fine and that we are all being punished for daring to be in our homes.
Lew Rosenberger
You might be right Lew. Everytime I called RMWD for the past 48 hrs, I got a different story. Even the "other" super nice water crews that came from Helix, etc. were told different things. Totally unacceptable and disorganized. If our health was really at risk here, wouldn't there be one consistant constant message?
The dire warning of "DO NOT HAVE ANY HUMAN CONTACT WITH THE WATER" seems a little extreme and maybe a little bit of CYA in this era of liability lawsuits. Where does our water come from? The Lake Poway reservoir or the reservoir over by Scripps ranch? My recollection is that while you can't swim in Lake Poway for reasons of *introducing* contamination to the water, you can go fishing there and take boat rides. How do you fish without touching the water? So we draw water from the reservoirs into our water purification and distribution system and we are worried that it gets more contaminated than it already is sitting there exposed to the elements in the reservoirs? I too received the 3:15pm "no contact" notice at 8:22pm which was recorded by my answering machine. So RMWD gives the warning 5 hours after they "determine" there may be a contamination problem. Talk about liability if people really were to get sick. I showered after the warning because I believed it was absurd. However, I am not drinking the water, but no human contact? Oh please.
To add to my post at 10:39, it also seems RMWD may be using this "health issue" to try to distract from their incompetence at managing this whole disaster.
Re Anonymous at 11:13...
You may be right. Perhaps they think we will all be so grateful to have a shower next week that we wont ask the embarrassing questions.
Lew
This morning KUSI said doing laundry was o.k.- So after I wash my clothes, I'll put on my little rubber gloves to transfer clothes from washer to dryer. I notice the earlier post about water already in the pipes. Can't drink it now, but if all clear is given in an hour, isn't it the same water?
I think once this has all passed, we should seriously consider a recall (if they do not voluntarily resign) of all but one of the Water Board members (Kit Kessinger). It must be tough to be the lone voice for concern at the water district board meetings, but after this disaster we need people thinking about the potential for crisis and not about how they can rook more money out of Ramona.
rahodeb has had ongoing contact with the water and, gulp, even drank some of it. rahodeb has not experienced any noticable side-effects. this includes having used the water before it went off, then the last remnants of backflow from my own system, then some of the water when the pressure began coming back, then my own backflow after they shut my valve, then more since they turned it back on. your mileage may vary, but nothing happened to me (yet!).
hey anonymous @ 12:38 PM - how does one tell the difference between mitigating crises (which seldom comes free) and rooking water customers? i want to be on the lookout for it.
our present water board and district staff have done a great job over many years while keeping rates steady. seems to me they need to work on their communication skills, and i'm eager to hear what they have to say about this, but until then they have my support. no doubt we will soon return to 3-4 letters a week in the sentinel about them. surely that will clear things up.
My husband took a shower last night, me, this morning. I ran the dishwasher on "sanitize" and did my wash this morning. I have a feeling this was all about sudden surge of usage than an acutual health issue. I won't drink it as yet, unitil I hear otherwise. But since this big ol' water tank in SDCE serves my neighborhood, how much water needs to pass 15 miles from the reservoir?? As long as we don't ingest it, it shoul be fine.
MY HORSES WILL BE COMMING HOME TODAY. IN THE SDCE . DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THE WATER IS SAFE OR OK FOR OUR ANIMALS TO DRINK? THANKS
"DO NOT CONSUME THE WATER, including while bathing."
Thats going to take all the fun out of bathtime...
It looks like you've been drinking the water, rahodeb. This issue regarding reserve water in case of a crisis has been an issue for years, and it has finally come home to roost. Watch for your water rates to go up since they'll need to actually build what they've promised to do all these years.
my feline and canine cohabitants have not complained. just my experience, not necessarily my recommendation.
yes, but only a little.
it's still cheaper than beer :)
I monitored the TV news daily, I watched the Ramona Sentinal site hourly, I blogged any info I had during the week. I only heard one story about the water problem. That is....
The fires burned through power lines that supply the RMWD pumping station (in Poway). It took RMWD awhile to get 1 generator. Then awhile longer to get a second. Then maybe even awhile longer to get a third. All the while they had trouble re-pressurizing the system because (a) these generators did not supply the same amount of power available via power line and (b) many water valves were left open or were being used thus not allowing the "weak" pump system to pressurize.
Additionally, multiple backflow pipes/valves melted during the fires allowing contaminents back into the water system.
I'm new to Ramona, and don't consider myself a sheep when it comes to listening to politicians, but I didn't see anything here that seemed out of line with reality. I don't know how much of this should have been prepared for. Will be interesting to hear if Poway and other districts are prepared for this type of calamity.
As for the history of RMWD, I know nothing. But I'll be watching to see where my votes should go.
Front page has been updated, looks as though the ban to bath has been lifted and I called 211 to confirm, however they are recommending that you avoid eyes, nose, mouth etc.. Huge thanks to the Sentinel for keeping us informed!! A MUST read for all Ramona Residents.
well, they finally got something up on the rmwd.org site. special meeting tuesday night. i'll be the one with dysentery.
LOL!!
Does anyone know the status of highway 78 from Escondido to Ramona. Is it still closed or has it been opened to traffic?
Thank You Sentinel and all of you who have been helping keep the information flowing.
eastbound 78 from escondido is closed at bandy canyon. can take bandy canyon to highland valley, then left into ramona.
The very least Ramona residents deserve is actionable, day by day information on their water supply so they can evaluate their personal risk. At the least we deserve to know:
-- What organisms may be present
-- What are the potential consequences of ingesting them
-- What are the risks of dermal contact
-- What tests are being run and what results do they produce
-- Who is running them
-- Where are they being run
-- How long does it take to run them
-- What are acceptable water quality standards for Ramona
-- If the water does not meet acceptable standards, what will be done, by whom, and how long will it take
We pay for this service. We are entitled to this information.
Anonymous at 8:28 AM hit the nail right on the head. This kind of information would establish that we have a professional competent water board. The fact that we don't have any of this information either indicates that they are hiding something they don't want us to know - or that they don't have a clue. Either way I am not feeling a "warm fuzzy" here. And I am not inclined to get reckless with water use.
When systems lose pressure what often can happen is raw sewage backflow into the system.
Each home should have a backflow preventer so sewage can't back up. Ramona has been like a puppy for so long - we beg to be petted and taken care of, we obey, fetch, love unconditionally & we keep getting kicked in the guts! WE Ramona citizens are the only ones concerned about our welfare. This latest fire should spark us into true action to become incorporated! We have many many excellent, knowledgeable folks here to run our town the way WE want it to be run -- BY us, FOR us! Attend the RMWD meeting tomorrow night at 6 pm -- I expect a HUGE turnout! The RMWD answers to the EPA so if there's any misconduct, hopefully the EPA will stand up for us residents. But WE can call for a recall of the incompetents right now. Once we get back to our "routines" everyone tends to simmer down and forget/forgive the past mistakes. What will it take for YOU to want to have control over YOUR own life and livlihood??? Let's become the biggest little city in the county and take care of our own!
Karen P
Is there a web site with the steps we need to take to become incorporated?
Anonymous...I totally agree with you. I've lived in this quaint little town for 14 years and am continually dismayed at the lack of care we're given from elected officials during a crisis. Having worked at the SD Water Authority as a Public Information Officer in my past, the first and foremost role is to INFORM. Had it not been for the Ramona Sentinel, I wouldn't know what's going on...it's time to stop this nonsense and make our voices heard!
From the Sentinel:
"Board president Robert Krysak has established an ad hoc committee of directors Doug Wilsman and Jim Robinson to prepare a complete analysis of the district’s response to the fire and to determine what, if anything, went askew, and what to do to correct it."
Isn't that cute? Krysak has assigned the foxes to count the chickens. We need an INDEPENDENT examination of the RMWD. Current senior management is incompetent...and that includes the Board of Directors.
This is a very small venue for the meeting. I would encourage all residents to get there early so that the "friendly" aren't taking up all the seats...
Anyone have any idea of the status of the Hogervorst family/egg ranch off Dye Road, if they are okay? Did the fire reach Dye Road/San Vicente Road? I know the family and one member lives on San Vicente Road, not far from Wildcat Canyon. However, I have not been able to reach them.
Thanks!
Thanks to our great Ramona Sentinel once again for letting us know that our water is safe for all purposes! WHY DIDN"T WE GET A REVERSE 911 CALL ABOUT THIS??? THE RMWD IS SOOOOOOOO SCREWED UP!
Let's get them out of office NOW!
I've driven by Dye Road and did not see any burned out areas. There is a Google map of all announced lost structures at www.ramonarelief.com - you might search there.
On another note - regarding the editor's comments on the main page ... one thing to note is that these Board Members are paid. I spent today roaming through the years of minutes on www.rmwd.org to see exactly how much (someone told me $100K ... but I'd be shocked at that so I wanted data). I did not find budget numbers, but in reading through minutes over the past 4 years, what I did see was an awful lot of "no recommendations" and no completed projects. Lots of planning, lots of talk of "reasons why" this or that would not work ... but not a visible sign of leadership or emergency planning.
Even their numbers for helping to conserve water - through improvements and leak detection and encouraging less use - all those numbers are essentially non-existing.
Yeah, a new source of water would be wonderful ... but what about doing something (besides a flyer in a billing mailer) to proactively help increase our reserves by starting with those of us who currently use it.
This fire has shown that Ramonans are quick to support and get involved ... it also showed that despite the Sentinel's remarks several weeks ago that we have no good leadership (except the Water Board - they seemed to like those leaders ... and criticized most of our other groups of UNpaid board members) ... we do have good leaders. They just have not been tapped by this agency.
In 4 years since the Cedar Fires ... I could not see any significant improvements by this Board, though I'd love to hear them tell us what they have actually accomplished while running this Board for years and years and years. Can they name just 3 big completed items? Not "plans" or "reports" ... but actual actions that have improved our water security and reserves?
I'll keep reading the minutes ... please let me know if any of you come across some action and proactive BIG thinking by this board.
They should have asked for help sooner ... I'm happy the county came in to help save the day after the firefighters helps save our town.
Lisa Wagner
Anybody wonder why the editors comments did not include the fact that the water board rejected help from the county of San Diego? The board was quick to run from the fires, but were also quick to reject any help. Kinda weird if you ask me. Just my 2 cents.
Couldn't make it to the 6PM due to traffic delays on 67. Anyone in attendence, please share what went down. Thanks
I tried to register my phone number to get the reverse 911 calls ( I didn't get them Sunday night!) and from the website I was told to visit ( run by Homeland Security) only San Diego city residents could register. Anyone know of a site where county residents ( ie: Ramona folks!) can register for reverse 911????
Mr. Editor,
The problem you seem to miss in your remarkable defense of RMWD and Mother Nature is straightforward. They (RMWD) did not show any urgency in resolving the problem. Call it a lack of leadership or planning but the response was not what the citizens expected. RMWD left Ramona hanging!
Disaster happens and all the planning in the world cannot overcome the power of Mother Nature. You cannot possibly prepare for every potential problem. All anyone can ask is that you respond to the problem with urgency and dedication to resolve. RMWD did neither and that is why everyone is TICKED-OFF. And by the way anyone with appropriate identification for services impacted was allowed entry back into Ramona on Tuesday.
I do not believe in public hangings or execution. But I would expect anyone and everyone in this town to not accept the inaction of RMWD. They did not respond to the situation well.
And Mr. Editor I would expect you to LEAD this town with opinion that will help shape this community into a City with valued leadership and not nonsensical rambling in the defense of the RMWD. This will only leave us in upheaval and unincorporated forever.
You can register cell phones for reverse 911 on KGTV (channel 10 ) website. Can't seem to find any info for home phone.
---------------------
As far as RMWD board members, we all have personal problems and people to take of. Their main responsibility as elected officials was to keep us informed of events pertaining to our lack of water,including problems and solutions. Why did Supv. Jacob have to step in and why was it that when RMWD board members did speak of water issue, there were 10 different stories going around? Everything from hoses being left on ( how many of those were well water?) , reservoir depleted due to firefighting efforts, ancient pumps with no backup fuses or generators. Poway is one station, how many others do we have? There should be an alternate because of fire and/or earthquake. What do they get paid per year? --I feel better now.Time for a shower.
Ageee...What ever happened to unbiased reporting? A publication needs to report BOTH sides, especially the editor.
I don't even know where to start here. I can't believe the bashing that is going on. You should all be ashamed! My uncle lost his house the first day of the fire. Monday morning he was called by the RMWD to help with the pumps as he has done contract work with them before. He went to work for them and worked 16, yes that is SIXTEEN, hour days for the next 3 days. This is without having a home to go back to. He worked in Poway with the generator issues. He worked at Mt. Woodson while it was still burning. He worked his ass off. And here you all sit in your homes and point fingers and blame on the RMWD and say that they aren't leaders. Well my uncle is a leader and went out there and worked while you were out of town belly-aching because you couldn't get back in. He was working so that he could get the water back to the homes before you got there so that you wouldn't have any complications, questions, concerns about the water. Maybe you all should have followed the recommended evacuation and stayed out of town for another 24-48 hours. Then the RMWD might have had a chance to get the water up and running for you. Instead you came home, took your showers, watered your lawns and BITCHED about it all. Guess what. My uncle doesn't have a shower or a lawn. You all have computers in which to sign on to this blog and post comments. My uncle doesn't have a computer but is busting his hump to make your homes even more comfortable. Why didn't RMWD contact the County? Because SDCE was helping them with the generators along with companies that they contract with. The county was not needed at that time. Why isn't the RMWD website up-to-date? Maybe the person that updates it lost their home. And if it was updated wouldn't you all just then bitch about the fact that RMWD can take the time to update the website but not fix the water. RMWD is stuck between a rock and a hardplace. You think that RMWD has CalTrans and reverse 911 on their speed dial? Seriously, you all need to back off. I grew up in Ramona and thought that it was such a great town with such great people. But you have become a mob (right out of Frankenstein) and you have your torches ready to put RMWD up in flames. Hasn't there been enough fire in Ramona? Instead of sitting her blogging and bitching, why don't you call RMWD and see if you can do some help. I am sure that some of you out there can use your big mouths and great ideas and perfect logic and 20/20 vision (not hindsight) to plan for a perfect Ramona. More power to you.
To my uncle, THANK YOU for all your hard work and sacrifices for a town that will hopefully become appreciative.
From reading Keith Hansen's editorial in today's Sentinel, two facts become readily apparent: Hansen is a hand-maiden for the RMWD, and Hansen has absolutely no clue how things really work. He tosses out one red-herring argument after another in a pathetic attempt to apologise for the incompetenece of the management of the RMWD.
Hansen argues that the board had to evacuate like everybody else, which is true, but so what? The board is not involved in the day-to-day management of the district. The board is responsibile for hiring competent management to run the district.
Hansen argues that nobody could have stopped the fire, which is also true, but so what? What has that to do with seeing there was a backup generator at the pump site in case power failed? Hospitals have back-up generators, fire stations have back-up generators, police stations have back-up generators. Why is the only source of water for 30,000 people not protected with a back-up generator?
Why then, according to public statements of RMWD management published in the Sentinel, were they unaware of a lack of water until Tuesday morning when a low pressure alarm went off?
Why then, according to public statements by Diane Jacob, were the 25% of RMWD employees who came to work during the fire only working 8-hour shifts when other emergency pesonnel worked 24-hour and longer shifts?
Why then, according to public statements by Diane Jacob, did the RMWD only ask for help to restart the water system last Thursday, and even then only after getting leaned on by county administrators?
Fulano and others,
Why do you think that Diane Jacobs is SO right and RMWD is so wrong? Care to hear both sides of the story or are you just wanting to back a politician? RMWD did not work 8 hour days. They worked 16 hour days. My uncle was one of them. He lost his house and work those hours along with any of the RMWD people that were still in town. It is amazing that you all think that RMWD was fully staffed and operational when the ENTIRE TOWN OF RAMONA WAS EVACUATED. Let me repeat that, THE ENTIRE TOWN OF RAMONA WAS EVACUATED. And yet in your minds, it seems that water district employees were to stay behind and make sure that all was well. In Ramona it was, until the generators in POWAY burned down. I guess RMWD should have known that an apocalyptic fire would race through Ramona and down to Poway and they should have been prepared. I am sure that you were prepared for an apocalyptic fire that raced through Ramona and down to Poway. Oh, wait, no you are as shocked as all of us. I am so dumbfounded by the comments and witch hunt here.
Andrea, we are all very sorry for your uncle's loss and have the utmost gratitude for his hard work while pushing aside his own problems and grief and helping the Ramona people. The whole water issue was very frustrating and, even though it may be wrong (or it may be later known that it is justified), people are angry and they need to be able to voice their anger and frustrations. I don't believe that any of them have said that the employees of the water district are lazy or should have stayed behind when all of us were told to leave. We are only saying that in hindsight, many things could possibly have been handled differently and these things should be addressed so that they don't happen again. Once again, please thank your uncle for his hard work and selflessness.
Sorry I agree with Andrea. You all wanted back in and you got it and you are now kvetching about the water board and their lack of experience? How many of you know how to run a water company? How many of you have experience in natural disasters? You got back in when you were bitching about that and we all knew you'd start bitching about the water next. You are getting angry over the wrong things! How many of you would not have lost your homes if you had cleared vegetation from your house giving the fire fighters half a chance at saving your house? How many of you knew of the fire danger in the area but over the years have done nothing about it? I'm sorry for those that lost your homes but quit placing blame where it does not belong! Go help out and get your town back in order! And to those of you who defied evacuation orders, you are LUCKY the national guard didn't bust your butts for it. You are lucky you didn't wind up like the couple in Escondido! Your house is not worth your life. When they say EVERYONE needs to evacuate..it means EVERYONE! YEESH!
Anonymous 10:42:
You speak as if you weren't a part of everyone who evacuated and wanted to go back to their homes, which leads me to believe that either
1. You weren't evacuated and you're speaking as an outsider who had no idea what it was like not being able to return to your homes and then, when you finally were let back, not having water or
2. You were the perfect evacuee who did everything they were told and then, happily held out until everyone gave you the all clear on everything, which means you arrived back home yesterday when the water warnings were cleared.
Either way, I'm thinking that with the knowledge you so obviously possess about disaster awareness, you should be putting that to better use, and instead of separating yourself from those of us who are so painfully hasty and irresponsible, you should be helping us to become more like you.
I haven't heard anyone bitch about the water district employees. In fact, they have been commended for doing a good job for what they got.
What people are bitching about is not the lack of work on the valve turners, it was the decisions that come from above. What people are pissed about is the fact that the water district did not ask for help. I hear mentions that everyone was evacuated. Very true! If my pumps went down and my employees were all gone, I would be at Diane Jacobs door begging for help. But there was none of that. What you have is a good ole boys club running the water district who are too stubborn to let people in to assist in there mis management. When your in a position of power like the board, you don't want people coming in and telling you what to do. But guess what, 30,000 + residence were waiting to get home and they were still letting there ego's get in the way. How come once Diane Jacobs could help, the process sped up and within 24hours, we we all at home again? Remember, like evacuating on time...asking for help on time is the same. Don't wait till it's too late, cause in the end, you will burn for making the wrong decision.
Can anyone fill us in on how the water district meeting went?
Anonymous 11:22am,
People have been saying that employees only worked 8 hour days when the fires hit. Your wonderful Diane Jacobs said this. WRONG! This was not a good ole boys club. You have such a conspiracy thing going on. What "help" did Diane Jacobs give? Did she go flush out pipes? Did she work on generators? No. She bitched on tv about the work being done, became a rabble rouser and got people into their homes sooner than they should have been. Now you are home and bitch about no water when you all knew the water wasn't ready. RMWD had SDGE working with them to restore water from DAY1. I guess SDGE is a good ole boy too, right? I guess asking SDGE to help doesn't count with you all. What was the county going to do when the rest of the county was on fire? The only thing Diane Jacobs did was bitch and cause all of you to bitch.
It's America, we can bitch if we want!! LOL. Seriously though she is the one who got the ball rolling and the ONLY one who actually let us know what the hell was going on. Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't she order all of the porto pottys and showers? Nobody is bitching about SDGE, you know why? Because they were on top of it and didn't hide from the media. I still think the water distric made some traggic mistakes and if they don't get smacked down, they will at least learn from this terrible example of what not to do during this traggity. They still haven't explained why they didn't ask for help from the county. If it wasen't for all fo the water districts who came in to help, they would still be turning meters on. I say, Thank you Diane Jacobs!!
Unfortunately the "squeaky wheel" theory prevails ... which is why so many go the bitchin' path first, from our country politicians to our locals (including me) - because it unfortunately seems to be the only thing that creates action with the status quo.
What I gained from the meeting last night was that the big failure was a communication failure. With all of the RMWD board connections, and all of their clients (us).
By spending six hours waiting for SDGE to communicate through the "proper channels" to learn about the down power source at the Poway pump - we lost valuable time.
Rules and procedures in emergencies simply don't cut it. Any of us would have been calling radio stations, calling everyone we could possibly think of, to get those answers. Not wait for a return call from someone who would undoubtedly have many calls in his/her voicemail box.
Also ... by having the water go down at the airport on Tuesday - keeping the bombers out of the air for 4 hours (pointed out last night by Sharon Q. - who was one of the best floor speakers of the bunch) - we lost critical fire fighting time, not just for Ramona, but every other part of North County.
There needs to be a PR/Community commumications director from Ramona Water to their "town" ... this problem was worsened by 100 times due to their inability to communicate what was really going on ... and I think we all would have been much more understanding if we weren't left to "guess" what the heck was really going on.
The rank and file of RMWD have always been hard workers, and quick to respond in the past to any issues we've had on an individual basis.
But the lack of clear leadership, and taking responsibility, and taking action - that is a failure at the top. Weaknesses that have been there for many years, but ones that become very apparent under the stress of a crisis - one that requires effective leadership.
I did not see any clear process of collecting the comments last night - something I mentioned when I spoke a short bit. I do hope they have an OUTSIDE investigation of qualified residents on how to make this better ... there were more excuses voiced last night by the board than solutions, which has me worried for our next fire, which will undoubtedly happen.
I encourage everyone to keep these topics alive, and that we require new leaders in this Board, and a portal to collect all of the many strong recommendations made last night to ACT on ... and not simply just "hear about" and forget.
If there is not a report on what went wrong and what to do within 30 days then we'll know that there is brushing under the rug happening.
Thanks to all those who spoke up last night - a lot of very good comments and ideas shared.
Lisa Wagner
Why don't we all start complaining about how long it is taking to open 78 or do we all like sitting in traffic for an hour or more, I certainly don't.
Anonymous 12:32,
What "tragic" mistake did RMWD make? (And that is tragic with one g, not 2) Seriously, the tragedy (not traggity) was the fire, not anything that RMWD did. Communication was a problem but phone lines and cell phone towers were burned also. It just astounds me that you are all so worked up over this. I hope each of you runs for the board of RMWD and run it the way "it should be" and learn a valuable lesson that things go wrong. Get over yourselves.
Andrea- Sorry about your uncles loss and I commend his hard work but I don't see anyone criticizng him. Take a breath. We suffered damage and know plenty of people who lost their homes. Thats not the subject. The problem is we pay enormous fees to the RMWD for our water and fire protection. If they can't deliver and there's a problem it needs to be fixed. The board has never realy been up to par. Look at the access to Lake Ramona. Isn't the access road to this public domain owned by a former RMWD board member? Save that for another time. Problem is all types of catastophies need to be lined up, evaluated and solutions in place. Same thing could happen in an earthquake. Where is the plan for this type of emergency. This is what the board is elected to do. If they can't handle it..... I evacuated, was told it was ok to return home. So, why are we all at fault for wanting to see how our homes and property fared? All I wanted was direct answers to the questions posed about water problem, and all I heard was reason after reason and blame on others by the board. Stand up, tell the truth and let it be!
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